[Ppnews] Peru: Interview with Political Prisoner Lori Berenson

[Political Prisoner News]

Peru: Interview with Political Prisoner Lori Berenson
http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/1497/1/


Written by Emma Shaw Crane
Thursday, 25 September 2008

American activist Lori Berenson was pulled off a 
bus in Peru in November of 1995, detained by 
anti-terrorist police, and tried for treason 
against the Peruvian state by a hooded military 
tribunal. A gun was held to her head as she 
received her sentence: life in prison. Accused of 
being a leader of the MRTA (Tupac Amaru 
Revolutionary Movement), Lori was one of 
thousands of people kidnapped, tortured, 
disappeared, and/or imprisoned during 
then-president Alberto Fujimori’s campaign to defeat rebel groups.

At the time of Lori’s first "trial," Peru was 
emerging from over a decade of bloody civil war, 
fought between leftist guerillas and the Peruvian 
military. Two major armed movements fought the 
Peruvian government, the MRTA and Sendero 
Luminoso, the Maoist Shining Path. Peru’s Truth 
and Reconciliation Commission has estimated that 
approximately 70,000 people were killed between 
1980 and 2000. Seventy–five percent of the 
victims were indigenous people, mostly Quechua, a 
number vastly out of proportion to their 16% 
share of the national population. The Peruvian 
Truth and Reconciliation Commission holds the 
government (through its military, police and 
intelligence apparatus along with paramilitary 
units) responsible for at least 45% of those 
deaths–compared to the MRTA who caused less than 
2% of mortalities during the civil war. The 
Shining Path was deemed responsible for the majority – 53%.

This interview with Lori Berenson took place 
shortly before the first of a series of trials of 
Alberto Fujimori began in Lima. Last December, 
the former president was sentenced to six years 
in prison for abuse of authority, the first of 
three charges. His second trial, for human rights 
abuses including homicide and kidnapping, resumed 
July 14th, 2008. Ironically, if he is found 
guilty on all counts, Fujimori could serve up to 
30 years in prison–just ten years more than Lori 
Berenson is currently serving. However, since 
Fujimori turns seventy this year, he is eligible 
under Peruvian law for a reduced sentence served under house arrest.

In this interview, Lori discusses how she 
maintains her hope while in prison, what she 
believes it takes to effect real and lasting 
social change, the emerging ‘New Left’ in Latin 
America, and why women political prisoners are 
perceived as a threat to social stability.

What’s the hardest thing for you about being in prison?

Frustration! You don’t have control of your own 
life. People don’t treat you like an adult. 
People are afraid to tell you that someone’s 
sick. You are unable to deal with your own 
problems, either economic or otherwise. You feel 
sort of – in Spanish it would be impotencia – you 
can’t do anything. The prison authorities beat 
someone up, you can’t do anything. Someone’s 
sick, you can’t do anything. You need to write a 
letter to someone and you can’t mail it. Frustration.

How do you maintain your hope and political 
conviction in a place as oppressive and confining 
and limiting as prison? What can you say about the prison system?

Each of the prisons I’ve lived in has provided a 
direct experience of why I think this prison 
system needs to change. Certainly, the first 
years I was in jail were very repressive years. 
Even in the last few years, you can still see the 
mistreatment of poor people. You can see it when 
they are presented before the judges, and you can 
see it in daily treatment. It’s money: those who 
don’t have money are not equal citizens. It’s a 
very defined class differentiation.

What advice do you have for young people who want real and lasting change?

I think that today’s young people have a really 
strong responsibility upon them. I’m no expert in 
any topic, but what I’ve heard about the 
environment is that there won’t be much water in 
Peru in 20 years. Unless people start changing 
the way they live day to day, and unless people 
dedicate themselves to making superpowers change 
their environmentally destructive habits, then 
things will be hell on earth in 5 to 10 years. 
And that’s just about the environment! Every war 
that superpowers like the U.S. wage mainly for 
economic interest is harmful on many levels – 
including mass killing of people. We’re seeing a drastic situation, basically,

What do you think are the major components of a successful political movement?

At this point, I think there are two things. One 
is that you have to decide what "star" you are 
looking to follow. I think most of the left 
(i.e., "progressive people") have a lot of 
confusion as to where they are going right now. 
And that is not helpful. What I find very 
negative, and what I’ve certainly seen here and 
in El Salvador, is that when you have a very 
divided left and progressive circle you go 
nowhere. You just wind up with everyone in their 
own little cube doing nothing. At least for me, 
if you want to be in your little cube, just fight 
your own struggle, don’t fight your struggle on 
the basis of saying, "Oh, so and so is worse." In 
the presidential campaign here in Peru, the most 
pathetic thing I’ve seen was one segment of the 
left criticizing other segments.

You’ve been outlining your first point about a 
successful social movement. What is your second point about?

On certain issues, it is important that there be 
unity among progressives and leftists. For 
example, in the U.S., what might be a principal 
point is to stop the war in Iraq immediately and 
not permit that there be another war like that. 
 From what I hear on the radio, that’s something 
that the left has in common with many from the 
Democratic Party. That’s the kind of thing I’m 
talking about. What issues are big enough? 
Protecting the environment! These are things that 
a lot of sectors can unite to do.

The other thing is that the left needs to look 
for where to go. I don’t think we need to look 
for a guide, someone who is going to say, "Do 
this." We need to sit down and think: What was 
good about what used to be regarded as the 
standards of the left before the falling of the 
Soviet block? What things were good, what things 
were not? What things need to be changed, what 
things shouldn’t exist? That kind of thing. We 
must learn from what was good and what was bad. 
But it’s time to do it, because I think we’re 
sitting around too long – myself included, by the way.

What lesson would you want to pass on to other 
activists, particularly young activists?

Go ahead with whatever you’re doing. I admire and 
I’m proud of the fact that there are still people 
who think that there are streets in which other 
people roam, and that things are not really what 
the press says, and that it is necessary to look 
out farther than what you can see from the 
windowsill. This is in spite of the fact that I 
think there is a proliferating move throughout 
the world to create individuals that live in 
their own little cubes. You go, and you see, that 
the world isn’t really what you think it is, and 
that it is that way maybe not for the reasons 
that the mainstream press says. It is necessary 
to think and to do – and not to sit and wait.

What is your hope for the future? Your future, 
and the future of movements you’ve been involved in?

I don’t think the future is going to be better in 
the short term. I’m not that hopeful about the 
governments in power. Even the trend in this 
region doesn’t give me much hope for solid 
structural change. You can have certain reforms 
that could be helpful, you can give spaces to the 
political or popular movement, allow them to do 
things they haven’t been able to under very 
repressive regimes, but it doesn’t mean there is 
a substantial change. The rules of the game 
haven’t changed. And unless those change, nothing 
will. It’s time to get back to discovering where 
we want to go, and while we’re discovering that, just start walking.

Do you have hope for the Chavez/Morales movement 
in Latin America, the threat of having a unified 
Latin American bloc that could potentially create 
solidarity among Latin American countries? What do you think about that?

I think it’s important that there be solidarity. 
But I don’t have enough information to know what 
they are really doing or not. What is clear to me 
is that it is still not possible to change the 
rules of the game. That’s the issue. You have to 
get to that place. It’s good that they feel this 
way. Certainly here in Peru the leaders seem to 
be afraid of something about the Chavez movement. 
What are they so afraid of? And the Peruvians are 
very afraid. And much of the U.S. is too. 
Actually, I think that they are giving us a hand 
on that. By making bigger deals out of things, 
they are actually unifying the left on certain things. Well, thank you!

What is your opinion of the war on Iraq, and do 
you see that fitting into the history of imperialism in Latin America?

I don’t know enough about history to give a 
historical background, but I think it’s more 
complicated in the sense that the economic 
interests are very big. It’s not only the 
interest in petroleum–it’s the interest in making 
a war and making peace-so that a lot of money is 
invested in destruction and the rest invested in 
reconstruction, which is disgusting. But then on 
social terms, I would say that they saw fighting 
as a way of uniting the U.S. after September 11th 
and making it feel strong. The heroes and 
Rambos–I’m not sure if that’s the correct name in 
today’s movies–but that kind of figure that’s 
going to go in there and kill all the bad guys. I 
also think the whole "hyping up" on nationalism 
is the other thing they intended to do.

You saw, because of your involvement with 
struggles in El Salvador, what happens when 
damaging policy is directed at a specific group 
of people. I’m curious if you see the war on Iraq 
as a parallel to that, as part of U.S. expansion and hegemony?

I think it is, but I wouldn’t make a parallel 
with Central America. I think Iraq is a much more 
powerful country, and I think there are other 
issues involved, like pride of the nations that 
are situated close to Iraq. I think it’s a much 
more complicated issue. And I don’t think the 
United States really took that into account. 
Vietnam, for example, was more isolated, whereas 
Iraq is not. And Vietnam didn’t have petroleum.

What is horrifying as well in Iraq is that so 
many historical relics and architecture have been 
destroyed–and no one seems to care. That’s never 
mentioned, ever, just as all the civilians killed 
are never mentioned. I think the U.S. has opened 
a big can of worms and they don’t know how to 
close it; at this point, they don’t know how to pull out.

Do you expect to be paroled in 2010, and what is your hope for your future?

I should be paroled but I’m not sure. I think 
many things can happen. The only thing that’s 
been constant over the last sixteen to twenty 
years is that the terrorists are the bad people. 
During the ten-year regime of Fujimori, Alan 
García was in exile for corruption – and now he 
is president again. Who knows how Fujimori’s 
trial will be, and how he will be regarded in 
about five years. But what has been a constant is 
that terrorists are terrorists, at least in the 
media. If it is really perceived as a danger, 
then political prisoners who are higher profile 
won’t be released, and I won’t be released on parole when I become eligible.

What tactics do you use to stay sane?

I was once asked a similar question: "How do 
people cope with prisons?" There are a variety of 
tactics. One is escaping from it in your mind - 
people get high, people do a whole bunch of 
things. In the case of myself, and most political 
prisoners I have known, the thing would be the 
confidence that whatever you believed in was 
right. So I think that has not changed. And you 
might have a good day or a bad day, I mean, when 
it rains everyone gets sort of gloomy, but even 
so, you don’t forget that you have that.

What messages do you have for Mumia?

My greatest respect to him and to all the 
political prisoners I’ve read so much about over 
these last several years. Keep struggling, 
because you’re right! This isn’t just a message 
for him, but to those who need to move on such 
issues so that his situation, and the situation 
of others like him, can change. There needs to be 
knowledge and consciousness of the need for these 
things to change. These are people who are 
victims of a state’s oppressive ways.

Do you think labeling people ‘terrorists’ will 
get old, like labeling people as ‘Communists’ did?

I still have the pieces that we wrote on this 
three or four years ago, saying ‘No, we’re 
subversives, we’re political prisoners, we are 
not terrorists. Terrorism means actions that 
cause terror, that try to create terror.’ I think 
I spent so much time trying to explain it to 
people, where it got to the point, after years of 
that, that I realized people still use the word 
terrorist and it doesn’t really change anything. 
Those who will feel deterred by the word might 
feel deterred by it anyway, and those who can see 
through the paint will do so as well. So this is 
a point on which I’ve definitely changed over the 
last three or four years, in the sense that it 
really doesn’t matter. You want to call me a 
terrorist? Call me a terrorist! It really doesn’t 
change anything. I know I am not a terrorist.

Yes! I remember growing up in a peak period of 
the Cold War, in an era when they would say the 
Russians are going to invade and whatnot, and all 
these communists, they are doing this and that. 
And you know? People became immune to that.

How do you see consumer culture affecting the 
types of crimes that are committed, and the aspirations that young people have?

Cajamarca, where this prison is located, used to 
be a small town, but since ’94 became a 
tremendous mining center. So it has grown but has 
not developed. All of the wonders of capitalist 
society have come here: the people now have giant 
shopping centers, filled with all sorts of junk 
that no one really needs, but they don’t have the 
education, the other side of development here. 
And that creates ‘created needs’. I would say, in 
general, in all of the societies that follow the 
model of the U.S. there are consumer cultures. 
Many people rob because they want what’s in 
style. They are taught since they are kids they 
need to consume; they need to be stylish; that 
these objects are a necessity. So what is a 
necessity is no longer food and water, but a 
whole bunch of junk. And those created needs are 
what drive people to different kinds of crimes, 
combined with the fact that there is no way of 
making enough money legally to get those kinds of things.

In that same vein, what has the mine brought here 
or not brought here? Has the promise of having 
industry in the town delivered or not delivered? 
What do people think of the mines?

Very mixed. Cajamarca doesn’t have industry 
related to the mine. What they have is a lot of 
services. The whole service sector in Cajamarca 
is related to the mine. Which means that most 
people, indirectly, might be providing for 
someone who works at the mine, or whatever. It’s 
very hard to do anything that is totally isolated 
from the mine. It’s everywhere. You hear it on 
the radio: they have paid ads talking about the 
environment. That’s what they do.

A woman in the line outside said that the only 
crime people in prison here have committed is de 
ser pobre, to be poor. What do you think of that?

I think that’s true on different levels. There 
are actually cases of police picking people up 
for stealing pañales [diapers]. In order for 
someone to give birth in a hospital they need to 
have their diapers, they need to have syringes, 
and surgical gloves. There have been people 
caught stealing diapers so that their wives can 
give birth. So that is an example of people 
stealing to meet their needs in a crude sense.

People are in here because of poverty on many 
levels: they don’t have enough money to buy off a 
judge, or enough money for a decent defense, 
though a decent defense is almost irrelevant with 
this legal system. In a good number of cases 
people without knowledge – poor in the sense that 
they don’t have a good education because wherever 
they are from doesn’t have a good enough 
education system, or because they’ve worked since 
they were kids – say things wrong when they talk 
to the police. They don’t answer the questions 
right because they were never educated to answer 
those kinds of questions. They get surprised by 
the authorities, or physically brutalized by 
them, which is always helpful in having them sign 
whatever they [the police] want. And this happens because people don’t know.

It’s poverty in the sense that you can’t do 
anything with your case, you can’t help out in 
the moving of papers from one desk to the next. 
This is often the case in the judicial system and 
the prison system in terms of benefits, like 
parole. They can take forever if you don’t have money.

How does the prison climate shift and change as 
there are fewer political prisoners in here with you?

It’s interesting because the last year that there 
were a fair amount of political prisoners in here 
was probably 2004. There have been other types of 
changes. For example, in 2003 the government 
replaced the police in internal control of the 
prison system. At the end of 2003 other types of 
prisoners started to be brought here from coast 
jails. In the last two or three years, however, 
prisoners brought here are often people being 
caught in Cajamarca who are not from Cajamarca. 
This has to do with the accelerated growth in 
Cajamarca, unrelated to development; so the city 
doesn’t develop its own criminals, it imports 
people to rob! I’m totally serious! People plan 
to come and rob here because they know so few 
people are doing this here. And so there have 
been a whole lot of people detained here who are 
not from this region in the last two or three 
years. It’s a very new experience.

The Cajamarca mines have created new needs, like 
drugs and prostitution. They always mix 
prostitution in there. These things create other 
kinds of violence. Now there are people here for 
drugs because Cajamarca is part of a drug route.

The other point to make is that there have been 
some crime categories for which prison benefits 
such as parole and work equivalence have been 
removed. In the case of rape, the sentences have 
been made much more drastic, and prison benefits 
have been removed from most if not all cases. The 
same has occurred in the cases of kidnapping and 
extortion. So now there is a greater number of 
crime categories that don’t have the right to 
benefits. The prison population is growing just 
on the fact that there are people who would have 
gotten out in the past but are not anymore.

I assume that women are in the minority here. 
What is it like being one of the only women in this prison?

Here I would say it’s actually a privilege. In 
this prison, the women have been treated well. 
Generally, treatment of women is much harsher. 
But the difference here is that there are so few 
of us. For instance, we have a sewing workshop 
that none of us can use because we don’t know how 
to work the machines, but it was donated to the 
women because there are few of us, so we could 
benefit from it. So in that sense we actually 
benefit because we are only a few. Sometimes the 
doctor won’t attend the men because there are 500 
of them, but they will attend the women because 
there are approximately thirty women here.

Why is treatment generally harsher in women’s 
wings, and how has that been your experience?

I am sure that if you speak to other women 
prisoners they will say the same things. I think 
it has to do with a lot of idiosyncrasies. One is 
the way the authorities see women: once you leave 
the roles that were given to you by society, then 
you have to accept what you get. With women, the 
treatment usually is very demeaning. I remember 
when I was in Arequipa they called us hijas 
(daughters). "I look at you as if you are my 
daughters." That is very offensive! It’s very 
demeaning. The worst thing in the treatment of 
women is that they don’t treat you like adults. 
Men can be roughened up a lot, mistreated, spoken 
too grotesquely, but they are never treated like 
children. And women always are. That’s the biggest difference.

The other thing is, in terms of political 
prisoners, I definitely think that female 
political prisoners are seen as a greater threat.

Why do you think that is?

One of the things they always say, and you can 
read this in cases, particularly in the case of 
the Shining Path, they always say, "Oh, the ones 
from the assassination squadrons are cold 
blooded, and they are always women." I remember 
hearing something similar when I lived in El 
Salvador. I think it’s this fear that a woman, 
when she is politically clear on things, is 
supposedly firmer in her beliefs. The torture of 
women has been horrendous- how many women have 
had kids in jail because of rape? It has to do 
with revenge. They committed the crime of leaving 
the roles that were given to them, and then on 
top of that being subversives, and on top of 
that, being firm in their beliefs.

I remember a woman who was recently sentenced to 
thirty years for something she didn’t do. I think 
it was largely because of the fact that when she 
was detained by the police she refused to speak, 
she refused to self–incriminate, and they said, 
"She’s too strong, she’s got to be a leader." She 
withstood the torture, withstood everything. And 
that was probably the reason she got a thirty-year sentence.

For more information, visit the Committee to Free 
Lori Berenson: <http://www.freelori.org/>http://www.freelori.org/




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